Re: universities as MMH

Hi all,

1. I enthusiastically second Steve's interest in hearing what others 
have to say about this. So far, only three people have written to the 
list on this subject, right? It's interesting that this year there 
seems to be less substantive critical discussion on complex issues 
than in previous years. Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe I am 
romanticizing past years :)

In any case, please also my comments in #4 below, suggesting the 
possibility of smaller listserves for more focused discussion on this 
stuff. 

2. I agree that this "impossible versus not" question may not be as 
interesting as other questions. Steve wrote:

"Also, for those who agree with my "its difficult, but not 
impossible" argument, I would love to start exploring the question of 
how people can move against the very real institutional resistance 
and cooptation pressures that Michelle has described and actually 
create and maintain meaningful activist education and training 
programs at their institutions. Personally that seems like an even 
more interesting and useful discussion to have than a 
possibility/impossibility debate--but then that just makes sense for 
someone who believes this work is possible (though difficult) within 
academic settings."  

As someone who is *not* right now inclined to believe this (not 100% 
certain on impossibility, but definately inclined in that direction), 
I am still interested in these issues. 

As a radical teacher and learner who is moving outside of academia, I 
feel that my work is nonetheless connected (at the deeper levels) 
with those committed to social change who are trying to create and 
maintain radical learning spaces inside these institutions. Thus, 
even though I am in a different place in all of this, I still feel 
that it makes real change more possible when people inside the 
institutions are actively engaged in critical reflection and dialogue 
about these difficult and important issues.

3. I would also like to pose the additional question of what the best 
relationships might be between those of us committed to doing this 
work outside academia, and those committed to doing it inside the 
institutions. This has been an important emerging question for me as 
I have gotten clearer about my own trajectory.

I wonder first of all *if* we can connect in useful ways, since our 
positions on the surface may require a rejection of each others' POV. 
That is, are our goals fundamentally in opposition to each others' in 
some ways even if we wish they weren't? This may require some good 
honest struggle. And then, if we come to the understand that the 
differences don't present an insurmountable barrier, are there ways 
that connections and relationships between us -- given the 
differences -- can serve the larger goal of radical learning in 
service to deep social change?

4. Both of these sets of questions (#2 and #3) may be interesting and 
maybe even at some level necessary discussions -- but I wonder if 
this listserve is an appropriate place to have them. I wonder this 
because so few people are publicly participating in this discussion. 

So -- I'm certainly open to taking some of this off-list, maybe one 
or two smaller, more focused email listserves?? 

I don't really know how to set those up so I can't say I will do it. 
But if someone else would do this, I would certainly be interested in 
participating (not only writing/speaking but also reading/listening), 
provided it is okay for me to participate as someone who will not be 
located primarily from within academic institutions.

5. Steve, thank you so much for the Horton/Freire comments. I was not 
fully aware of this. I have had the opposite trajectory from yours in 
some way -- in that I think that ten years ago, even five or three 
years ago, I would have been more inclined to side with Freire on 
this. But based on my experiences and analyses and my particular role 
in the larger struggle, I am now closer to Horton's position, not 
only in ideas but also in my evolving practice. 

So, thank you for making it extremely clear that there is a legacy 
into which my current and future work is linked (not the same, but 
linked). I mean, I know *some* stuff about Highlander, but need to 
know more, I think. And there was something about your comments on 
the Horton/Freire debate, in the context of this lisserve discussion, 
that just opened things up for me on this piece. The legacy is really 
incredibly important and moving for me right now. I appreciate the 
opportunity to learn in this way.
 
Best,
Michelle
mbgolden@mindspring.com